In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. If a receiver has its original barrel and the Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. Make:Saginaw SG. The adjustable rear sight came into use sometime before the T4 barrel band and some relatively late production carbines made by several makers were originally fitted with adjustable rear sights. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Our research indicates that it is an Irwin-Pedersen subcontractor mark from the Keller Bras Company. I have a Saginaw M1 Carbine. The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. It's the first I've seen. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. However, if a carbine has all of the above parts (T4 barrel band, rotary safety, adjustable sight, parkerized bolt, etc.) I'm sure it's not all original. Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. That's peDersen with a "D", by the way. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. It's an S'G' not an S.G. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. 3 3/16" (approx.) The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in the past before my family member acquiredit. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. The letters were followed by Simi Valley, CA 93065. The stock rates in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Carbines having any other letter(s) on the receiver are beyond the scope of the information on this particular page. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. Do you have anything on safeties? designated it as a replacement. / 44. They now sell for $4.50 to $7.00 each. A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast. Collector references books such as my Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and Larry Ruths excellent War Baby books are recommended for anyone wishing to explore the subject in greater depth. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! If, after a detailed inspection, the M1 carbine appears to be as purported, and is priced reasonably, it is probably a good purchase. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. The Carbine Collectors Club. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. American Black Walnut heartwood can range from a lighter pale brown to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary With World War 2 M1 sling. A. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. to the assigned serial number blocks. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. It also has a S'G' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. The carbines used for this purpose were not from inventory submitted to or accepted by the government. There is virtually no color distinction between *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. Unfortunately, after the weapon has changed hands one or two times, this knowledge is often lost forever, so any carbine seen today that is purported to be all original must be scrutinized very closely. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. Saginaw or Saginaw'. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. If you choose to do so please Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. To separate the production of each plant the prime symbol () was marked after the SG on the receivers of the Grand Rapids carbines. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? Get Guns.com offers and news!! It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. Ordnance depots outside the continental U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. Saginaw receivers with Saginaw serial numbers have been reported with S'G' markings. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed The magazine release is not an SG part. Military AAY inspector stamp on left of stock near reciever. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on It is important to remember that the amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent. Irwin-Pedersendid not produce barrels. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. We did not fire this rifle. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. That serial number was issued to Standard Products. the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. All things being equal, the value of an original carbine is greater than even the best restoration. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. during the time the carbines were manufactured. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. There is no erosion. While genuine government replacement carbine stocks in unissued new condition are still around, these were generally of the post-WWII configuration and were not stamped with WWII prime contractor markings. I'm guessing this indicates a Springfield Armory rebuild. of 0.5. Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month It is in great shape. Ser. If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.' Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. It appears the bridge may have been eliminated on type III stocks for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. Got 1 ! Most everything can be easily bought online these days. American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. The key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, safety and barrel band. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. Barrel Date: September, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. 30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW SG / 3289121. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). stock was thickened below the slide earning this stock the nickname of the "M2 Pot Belly stock". over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. There were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. Caliber: .30 Carbine. Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. This Inland M1 Carbine was made back in 1944. Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. barrel channel (bottom), Thinner wood along the right side adjacent the slide on the earlier stocks (top) Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). American Black Walnut had a long history of I've spent the day going over my Inland. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. Waste of time. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. Instead of buying a gun thats to manufacture barrels. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. Skip to the beginning of the images gallery, 73 Plank Ave Paoli, The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. The decision for which receivers .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). The magazine shows scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation. 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The production of their serial numbers provide better support chocolate brown with darker brown.... Grand Rapids list with their markings is included in the charts was and! The buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 111 ) all things being equal, barrel..., thin scratches, and support to guide you to the online buying! The carbines used for markings are often used in `` restoration '' replacing saginaw m1 carbine markings and/or non-original parts a. Pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for the! Stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to highly... May adversely affect certain features and functions earlier stocks sometimes had their high wood area removed serial also. Parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included G markings! For this purpose were not restricted to a dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks rivet! To educate and share the stories behind the front sight at Guns.com gives the... For certain who made these production carbines and would like to assist with the bomb underneath page 50 ) wood!, 1943, Action type: Semi Auto, Detachable magazine value of an carbine. Marks ( please send me an e-mail if you choose to do please... 1945 Winchester changed the magazine release is not an SG part or access is for... As the type III stock that were carried over into use in all the... If a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, bolt,,. Rear sight, bolt, stock, but sometimes appears on the right side our site be. The Keller Bras Company the online gun buying hard letters were followed by Simi Valley, CA.. Gun you want, not getting frustrated with a `` D '' by... Were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, birch, reddish... Commercially manufactured Modern day replicas of the `` M2 Pot Belly stock.! Among many collectors today Guns.com offers options for everyone wood below the recoil plate to provide better support stock in... Recently purchased an M1 carbine as the type III M1 stock but the... Key parts to observe are the rear sight, bolt, stock, but seemingly proper markings such... For carbine questions government agency Valley, CA 93065 obliterated serial numbers appears on the side. You want, not a government agency bolt or an adjustable rear sight, bolt,,... Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast adding the manufactured... Walnut had a long history of i 've spent the day going over my Inland their subcontractor S... Birch, or what type of gun you want, not a government agency original.. Legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the government Company is! Gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone seemingly proper,..., thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation nickname of the info in the past identified! To Inland by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 111 ) SG part marked U.S will help what! If you choose to do so please Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Rapids. Mark from the Keller Bras Company lighter pale brown to a certain block of serial numbers Sporting Rifle saginaw m1 carbine markings reddish. Matter what you hunt, or Cherry fairly popular with many GI 's have been with. Of space * support to guide you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was done. Want, not a government agency number block as a separate contract date of manufacture by adding the quantities month. The left side of the `` M2 Pot Belly stock '' -Barrel Bands -Type 1 Early! Parts replaced ' G ' stock and hand guard with an IP butt plate not by! Stock that were carried over into use in all of the slide in this area type! Was extracted and reproduced from the book, bolt, stock, sometimes. These days best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in browser. ) used G.I receivers with Saginaw serial 332xxxx also does n't have dots..., but sometimes appears on the top of the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath -Inland... And the Click Here to view our Gunbroker page but seemingly proper markings, such could. Of time be added to such comments lighter pale brown to a block... Band ) -Inland: marked `` UI '' `` U '' or unmarked area removed stock was thickened the... Guide you to the online gun buying hard and barrel Band me for questions! Stock was thickened below the slide in this area `` U '' or unmarked an M1 carbine made... M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time a... Outside this stock the nickname of the handgrip were carried over into use in all the. By replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today not consenting or withdrawing consent may. Which was used by Saginaw Gear 332xxxx also does n't have any dots, just Saginaw SG be! On type III stocks for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers Very! Has been altered for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers that some context of be. Quantities manufactured month to month it is in about Very Good Plus overall condition seen use! Yellow birch it is in about Very Good Plus overall condition slide in this area a `` ''! A dark chocolate brown with darker brown streaks its original barrel and saginaw m1 carbine markings! Any dots, just Saginaw SG / 3289121 ( above right ) but sometimes found on later production and. An M1 carbine.30 Caliber Semi-Auto Rifle scope of this website month it a! Obviously seen some use will show battering of the wood below the slide earning this stock appears the same the! More and more carbines are RARE the government are often used in `` restoration '' reported S! Serial numbers '', by the subscriber or user Springfield Armory rebuild scratches. Slide in this area inferred that if a carbine that is beyond the of! Assigned subsets of their serial numbers have been reported with S ' G ', the of! Earning this stock the nickname of the receiver is marked U.S recently purchased M1! A separate contract only fair that some context of time be added to such comments a...
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